Are you planning on engaging more with Jonathan Haidt’s research around screens, smart phones, social media etc and mental health? I feel like he’s a serious social scientist who would only benefit from your constructive criticism.
I read two books around the same time in 2019, The Coddling of the American Mind by Jonathan Haidt and Greg Lukianoff, and How to Raise an Adult by Julia Lythcott-Haims. Both books focused on kids' and young adults need for risk-taking, play time without adults, etc. I also recall that the Haidt-Lukianoff book focused extensively on social media on smart phones in the lives of teens rather than screens in general, or the screens themselves, as the key driver of the beginning of the 2012 decline. I was compelled at the time that social media was a problem for teens, and have only become more convinced of that over time, on the basis of anecdotal experience. I'm curious how this bears out in the available data?
I would argue that kids are given independence where they need it in the least -- on social media. It’s ironic that at a time where kids are hyper aware of mental health issues and jargon, they are experiencing the highest levels of decline in mental health. Social media encourages kids to think about themselves through the eyes of other people. My theory is that too much navel gazing in this way is not healthy (it encourages that external lock of control). Unsupervised play is better, not simply because kids are unsupervised, but because they are participating in and with their bodies, not trying to look through themselves from the outside.
This is helpful and great — but I’m surprised you didn’t talk about the popularization of Instagram in 2012. The internet I read seems pretty convinced that’s the direct cause of the sharp increase (in addition to parenting trends).
Here in the suburbs, play is dead and everyone is afraid. Even though we live in an incredibly safe area, people are afraid to let their children take the bus to school, play unsupervised in their own yards, have sleep overs and ride bikes out of sight. It’s maddening and hard to find people who will allow kids to just hang out and play instead of structuring and overseeing every damn activity.
I think there’s more of a link here to explore: the decrease of independence AND the increase in personal screens/virtual gatherings as opposed to in person. Parents are afraid of “what’s out there” and feel it’s “safer” to be inside - and what’s inside is the iPad, phone, etc. One more thing: decline of community and communal trust.
Over managing children is starting so much younger and in the schools and daycares. My son is five and he's basically been instructed at this point that he can play not games where you touch another person, including tag, in school. My son is not maliciously hurting other kids or engaging in inappropriate touching. He's wrestling, rough housing, *playing tag* (!) Something I remember boys and girls doing through grade school without getting in trouble. I found your game of elimination shocking in modern context.
Now all schools are "zero tolerance" and this applies to such a wide range of behaviors that are developmentally appropriate for preschoolers and grade school children. Of course, no one should play tag or wrestle who doesn't want to. Consent is important at all ages and I remember in my childhood that sometimes kids would chose to sit out and that's fine too.
But kids are being taught that keeping your hands to yourself is the end all and be all of relationships and this seems a shift too hard in one direction and yes, it has obviously driven them to spend more time with technology in their hands instead. I'm much more afraid of YouTube unsupervised than a game of tag or even Elimination.
Emily, I am thrilled to see you weighing in on this issue. You are probably also aware of Lenore Skenazy and her non-profit LetGrow that has been promoting childhood independence for a decade. Several years ago I binge read Lenore’s book, Jon Haidt and Greg Lukianoffs book and Julia Linkit-Haims as cited above. I was left convinced that I wanted to raise my kids with independent time but have largely fallen back to the cultural norms of overprotection. I would love to hear your critical review of their work (in addition to what is provided above) and if you can keep us abreast of new work in this space!
I just had an overwhelming realization as a teacher. The ability to check your students grades online also came out in 2011 for VA schools and that has been a source of anxiety for almost all of my students. I can absolutely see that as a connection between independence/loss of control that parents can constantly check their students school progress!!
This is one claim for which I don't need data to convince me. I just believe it intuitively, based on my own memories of adolescence. My friends and I spent so much time hanging out at the mall, at coffee shops, and riding around aimlessly in someone's car. It was all about getting away from our parents and doing our own thing; I still remember how intensely I felt that need for my own space. So many teenagers struggled during the pandemic, in part because they were cooped up with their parents.
Of course, I'm sure that other factors like Instagram and climate change are contributing too.
It's interesting to me how many folks are referencing The Coddling of the American Mind by Jonathan Haidt and Greg Lukianoff, and the substack by Jonathan Haidt. Although Emily Oster focuses on the subject of parenting, I think what's universally noted as being unique and compelling about Emily's work and writing in particular, as opposed to other writers on the topic of parenting, is her critical examination of the research and data we are presented with - she often points out the flaws, the misrepresentations, the lack of context, the gaps in knowledge and the ways we make generalizations, slippery slope arguments, etc. Emily is often helpful in illuminating the ways in which incomplete or poorly acquired data creates faulty messaging and ideas, and how that in turns shapes our narratives and discourses. She acknowledges how cultural norms and expectations, the ways we are socialized, the systemic forces which shape our society, all figure into our approach to research and data. She spotlights the vacuums in which research is often conducted and data is often interpreted. The arguments made in The Coddling of the American Mind fall into so many of the traps Emily seeks to shed light on.
We live in a very safe, incredibly walkable area of Cincinnati. My high schooler attends the public school and I see a lot of the kids walking to and from school (including my own kid.) My younger kids (1st grade, 5th grade, and 7th grade) attend our parish school which is about a mile from our house. The majority of families attending the school don't live in the neighborhood and commute in. I continue to be astonished by how many of my kids' friends are not allowed to walk home from school with my kids to come hang out/play after school. If we invite them over, I either have to go to car line and get them or their parents are picking them up and driving them the 5 mins down the street. Car line is THE WORST and I am shocked that I am offering my fellow parents a way out of it and offering their kids the joy and freedom that comes with a kid and their buddies being able to pal around as they walk home after a day of confinement at school and the won't take it.
I wonder if there's also an element of kids not having an internalized sense of their abilities to deal with struggles and overcome obstacles due to fewer opportunities to deal with minor risks and challenges on their own. Not having experiences facing and overcoming challenges means you won't know that you can succeed. That lack of confidence in your abilities could lead to more unhappiness, especially as you enter the teen and young adult years. I was raised by parents who protected me from absolutely everything and I still lack confidence in my abilities.
This is a really important topic. I would add that Americans are not a cultural monolith. The decisions parents make to keep their kids safe or to allow independence in the Bronx are not even the same as the ones people make in Brooklyn (both places where I have taught children, and witnessed the diversity even within these communities on this issue). Much less the same as the decisions my friends make in rural CO or suburban CA. Some may be influenced by the WEIRD (Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic) cultural ways of the American mainstream that Doucleff cites in “Hunt, Gather, Parent,” while others may be more influenced by the cultures from which they or their parents hail, if they are more recent immigrants. Some may feel the threat of racialized violence more than others and parent accordingly. Millennials may parent differently than Gen X due to our earlier exposure to moments like 9/11 and the 08 recession, as well as the rise of school shootings, which sent the signal that the world at large is not as safe as it was for our Boomer parents, even if we can imagine that the threat of nuclear destruction for Boomers definitely would put a damper on things. (Jess Grose had a good piece on the this in the NYT this week.) This may point as well to many parents, and not just children, feeling that the locus of control in these decisions does not ultimately lie with them, but outside of themselves. Or that it is a luxury that can only be purchased at higher and higher prices. Some folks can afford to move or send their children into spaces that allow for scaffolded risk-taking. Others have their hands full just trying to keep them alive where they are. Maybe our teens are just sensitive and perceptive enough to be picking this up from the grownups in their lives.
I would echo the interest to have you share your perspective on Jonathan Haidt’s work, and pull apart phones and social media. Oster leaning in on Haidt would be a Substack feed dream for me of my two favorites :).
Are you planning on engaging more with Jonathan Haidt’s research around screens, smart phones, social media etc and mental health? I feel like he’s a serious social scientist who would only benefit from your constructive criticism.
I read two books around the same time in 2019, The Coddling of the American Mind by Jonathan Haidt and Greg Lukianoff, and How to Raise an Adult by Julia Lythcott-Haims. Both books focused on kids' and young adults need for risk-taking, play time without adults, etc. I also recall that the Haidt-Lukianoff book focused extensively on social media on smart phones in the lives of teens rather than screens in general, or the screens themselves, as the key driver of the beginning of the 2012 decline. I was compelled at the time that social media was a problem for teens, and have only become more convinced of that over time, on the basis of anecdotal experience. I'm curious how this bears out in the available data?
I would argue that kids are given independence where they need it in the least -- on social media. It’s ironic that at a time where kids are hyper aware of mental health issues and jargon, they are experiencing the highest levels of decline in mental health. Social media encourages kids to think about themselves through the eyes of other people. My theory is that too much navel gazing in this way is not healthy (it encourages that external lock of control). Unsupervised play is better, not simply because kids are unsupervised, but because they are participating in and with their bodies, not trying to look through themselves from the outside.
This is helpful and great — but I’m surprised you didn’t talk about the popularization of Instagram in 2012. The internet I read seems pretty convinced that’s the direct cause of the sharp increase (in addition to parenting trends).
Here in the suburbs, play is dead and everyone is afraid. Even though we live in an incredibly safe area, people are afraid to let their children take the bus to school, play unsupervised in their own yards, have sleep overs and ride bikes out of sight. It’s maddening and hard to find people who will allow kids to just hang out and play instead of structuring and overseeing every damn activity.
I think there’s more of a link here to explore: the decrease of independence AND the increase in personal screens/virtual gatherings as opposed to in person. Parents are afraid of “what’s out there” and feel it’s “safer” to be inside - and what’s inside is the iPad, phone, etc. One more thing: decline of community and communal trust.
Over managing children is starting so much younger and in the schools and daycares. My son is five and he's basically been instructed at this point that he can play not games where you touch another person, including tag, in school. My son is not maliciously hurting other kids or engaging in inappropriate touching. He's wrestling, rough housing, *playing tag* (!) Something I remember boys and girls doing through grade school without getting in trouble. I found your game of elimination shocking in modern context.
Now all schools are "zero tolerance" and this applies to such a wide range of behaviors that are developmentally appropriate for preschoolers and grade school children. Of course, no one should play tag or wrestle who doesn't want to. Consent is important at all ages and I remember in my childhood that sometimes kids would chose to sit out and that's fine too.
But kids are being taught that keeping your hands to yourself is the end all and be all of relationships and this seems a shift too hard in one direction and yes, it has obviously driven them to spend more time with technology in their hands instead. I'm much more afraid of YouTube unsupervised than a game of tag or even Elimination.
Emily, I am thrilled to see you weighing in on this issue. You are probably also aware of Lenore Skenazy and her non-profit LetGrow that has been promoting childhood independence for a decade. Several years ago I binge read Lenore’s book, Jon Haidt and Greg Lukianoffs book and Julia Linkit-Haims as cited above. I was left convinced that I wanted to raise my kids with independent time but have largely fallen back to the cultural norms of overprotection. I would love to hear your critical review of their work (in addition to what is provided above) and if you can keep us abreast of new work in this space!
Thanks for taking this on! Love it!
I just had an overwhelming realization as a teacher. The ability to check your students grades online also came out in 2011 for VA schools and that has been a source of anxiety for almost all of my students. I can absolutely see that as a connection between independence/loss of control that parents can constantly check their students school progress!!
This is one claim for which I don't need data to convince me. I just believe it intuitively, based on my own memories of adolescence. My friends and I spent so much time hanging out at the mall, at coffee shops, and riding around aimlessly in someone's car. It was all about getting away from our parents and doing our own thing; I still remember how intensely I felt that need for my own space. So many teenagers struggled during the pandemic, in part because they were cooped up with their parents.
Of course, I'm sure that other factors like Instagram and climate change are contributing too.
It's interesting to me how many folks are referencing The Coddling of the American Mind by Jonathan Haidt and Greg Lukianoff, and the substack by Jonathan Haidt. Although Emily Oster focuses on the subject of parenting, I think what's universally noted as being unique and compelling about Emily's work and writing in particular, as opposed to other writers on the topic of parenting, is her critical examination of the research and data we are presented with - she often points out the flaws, the misrepresentations, the lack of context, the gaps in knowledge and the ways we make generalizations, slippery slope arguments, etc. Emily is often helpful in illuminating the ways in which incomplete or poorly acquired data creates faulty messaging and ideas, and how that in turns shapes our narratives and discourses. She acknowledges how cultural norms and expectations, the ways we are socialized, the systemic forces which shape our society, all figure into our approach to research and data. She spotlights the vacuums in which research is often conducted and data is often interpreted. The arguments made in The Coddling of the American Mind fall into so many of the traps Emily seeks to shed light on.
We live in a very safe, incredibly walkable area of Cincinnati. My high schooler attends the public school and I see a lot of the kids walking to and from school (including my own kid.) My younger kids (1st grade, 5th grade, and 7th grade) attend our parish school which is about a mile from our house. The majority of families attending the school don't live in the neighborhood and commute in. I continue to be astonished by how many of my kids' friends are not allowed to walk home from school with my kids to come hang out/play after school. If we invite them over, I either have to go to car line and get them or their parents are picking them up and driving them the 5 mins down the street. Car line is THE WORST and I am shocked that I am offering my fellow parents a way out of it and offering their kids the joy and freedom that comes with a kid and their buddies being able to pal around as they walk home after a day of confinement at school and the won't take it.
I wonder if there's also an element of kids not having an internalized sense of their abilities to deal with struggles and overcome obstacles due to fewer opportunities to deal with minor risks and challenges on their own. Not having experiences facing and overcoming challenges means you won't know that you can succeed. That lack of confidence in your abilities could lead to more unhappiness, especially as you enter the teen and young adult years. I was raised by parents who protected me from absolutely everything and I still lack confidence in my abilities.
This is a really important topic. I would add that Americans are not a cultural monolith. The decisions parents make to keep their kids safe or to allow independence in the Bronx are not even the same as the ones people make in Brooklyn (both places where I have taught children, and witnessed the diversity even within these communities on this issue). Much less the same as the decisions my friends make in rural CO or suburban CA. Some may be influenced by the WEIRD (Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic) cultural ways of the American mainstream that Doucleff cites in “Hunt, Gather, Parent,” while others may be more influenced by the cultures from which they or their parents hail, if they are more recent immigrants. Some may feel the threat of racialized violence more than others and parent accordingly. Millennials may parent differently than Gen X due to our earlier exposure to moments like 9/11 and the 08 recession, as well as the rise of school shootings, which sent the signal that the world at large is not as safe as it was for our Boomer parents, even if we can imagine that the threat of nuclear destruction for Boomers definitely would put a damper on things. (Jess Grose had a good piece on the this in the NYT this week.) This may point as well to many parents, and not just children, feeling that the locus of control in these decisions does not ultimately lie with them, but outside of themselves. Or that it is a luxury that can only be purchased at higher and higher prices. Some folks can afford to move or send their children into spaces that allow for scaffolded risk-taking. Others have their hands full just trying to keep them alive where they are. Maybe our teens are just sensitive and perceptive enough to be picking this up from the grownups in their lives.
As others have mentioned, Jonathan Haidt! His After Babel Substack is phenomenal and is diving deep into the data on this topic.
I would echo the interest to have you share your perspective on Jonathan Haidt’s work, and pull apart phones and social media. Oster leaning in on Haidt would be a Substack feed dream for me of my two favorites :).